What does HackerNews think of dactyl-keyboard?

Parameterized ergonomic keyboard

Language: OpenSCAD

The Advantage360 feels like Kinesis' answer to the DIY Dactyl keyboard — which has a Kinesis-like layout, but which you would have to download, 3D-print, build and solder yourself. Being open-source (parametric SCAD), there are also a bunch of derived designs out there.

<https://github.com/adereth/dactyl-keyboard>

There is a PCB kit for the Dactyl to reduce the amount of handwiring:

<https://bastardkb.com/product/flexible-pcb/>

Very similar vibes to the dactyl, if you're feeling handy and interested in a little DIY...

https://github.com/adereth/dactyl-keyboard

Even better, some kind of configuration that accepts a range of values and then generates a model. Dactyl keyboards work this way

https://github.com/adereth/dactyl-keyboard

I've never personally used a Planck, but I've got plenty of experience using alternative keyboards.

With regards to ergonomics, I don't think the Planck solves really any of the issues with a standard keyboard. While the straight columns and rows might reduce some horizontal movement of your fingers when typing, the fact that it's one piece with no angle means that your wrists will be contorted, which is the same problem with a standard keyboard. Also, your fingers aren't the same length, so having ortholinear keys doesn't really account for that in any way and pinky finger keys are more difficult to access.

If you're going to bother with learning how to type on an unconventional keyboard (and if you have any sort of concern for your wrist/hand health, I'd encourage you to do so), I'd suggest looking at split keyboards what have offset rows with straight columns of keys, at the minimum. ZSA actually sells the Ergodox EZ and Moonlander, both of which I'd say are better keyboards. They are of course a lot bigger than the planck, which might be problematic if you're using it on the go a lot.

If you're looking for something a bit more portable, perhaps something like the atreus would be more suitable. There's a prebuilt one you can purchase from keyboardio [1] though you can find kits online to build one yourself. Gboards [2] also has some nice low profile small form factor keyboards, though the owner of Gboards is currently not accepting any new orders as she's working through the backlog of orders. There's a ton more shops that sell kits for small form factor keyboards and there is no shortage of choice for keyboards with all sorts of form factors and numbers of keys. A good place to start researching it is the ergonomic mechanical keyboards subreddit [3] and the olkb (planck) subreddit [4].

Personally, I use the Kinesis Advantage 2 [5] with a custom microcontroller designed by Michael Stapelberg [6] that allows me to run QMK [7] on it. Kinesis has announced a new fully split keyboard that doesn't have a ship date that I'm also very interested in [8]. These have concave key wells which are a bit hard to describe but once you've put your hands on one, it becomes pretty obvious the difference in just pure comfort to the hands they bring. Any keyboard with these key wells however are very large and not exactly a great portable keyboard. Still, I think the tradeoffs are well worth it.

Finally, If the Advantage isn't your jam, there are open source keyboards made with key wells and are fully split like the Dactyl [9], and Dactyl Manuform [10]. Prebuilt manuforms can be found at Oh Keycaps [11] and a few other vendors. These are very geeky keyboards that will require a lot of effort on top of the effort of learning how to type, so I'd only suggest them if you're really ambitious about using alternative keyboards and getting the most out of them.

A lot of the more popular mechanical keyboard communities are great for what they are, but they have kind of zeroed in on focusing on mostly aesthetics. The Mechanical Keyboards subreddit [12] is primarily glamour photos of people's keyboards and offers very little discussion in terms of ergonomics, alternative keyboard layouts, or other aspects of the hobby. Still, it's a great place to look for key switches you might like (the sound being one of the big considerations) or keycap group buys that you might be interested in. I hope that I can help get more eyes on the ergonomic keyboard community since more eyes is more interest and more interest means more innovation and better keyboards.

[1] https://shop.keyboard.io/products/keyboardio-atreus

[2] https://www.gboards.ca/

[3] https://www.reddit.com/r/ergomechkeyboards

[4] https://www.reddit.com/r/olkb/

[5] https://kinesis-ergo.com/shop/advantage2/

[6] https://michael.stapelberg.ch/posts/2020-07-09-kint-kinesis-...

[7] https://qmk.fm/

[8] https://twitter.com/kinesisergo/status/1397335511694381058

[9] https://github.com/adereth/dactyl-keyboard

[10] https://github.com/abstracthat/dactyl-manuform

[11] https://ohkeycaps.com/products/built-to-order-dactyl-manufor...

[12] https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/

I wonder if circuits printed on paper would yield themselves to the same specialized applications as flexible PCBs.

For example, there are many variations of custom-made Dactyl keyboards, most of which require hand-wiring to accommodate for the curved shape of the design: https://github.com/adereth/dactyl-keyboard

Innovative designers have come up with alternatives that rely of flexible PCBs. The most recent example I recall is the Bastyl keyboard: https://www.reddit.com/r/mechmarket/comments/jvacs6/gb_basty...

I don't know how to even begin prototyping with flex PCBs, but that barrier to entry may be lessened with paper circuits like these.

I'm using UHK for almost a year and can share with my experience.

It really depends on a keyboard - if it is similar to regular one or not. The UHK is pretty similar to regular keyboard - keys are staggered (not ortholinear), there are no additional thumb keys which are also not available on a regular laptop keyboard. After a year with UHK I'm still able to jump between laptop and UHK when needed. Somehow muscle memory "detects" when my hands are on UHK and I start using additional shortcuts which are not available on laptop.

Meanwhile if you'd pick something like Dactyl https://github.com/adereth/dactyl-keyboard, I believe it would be more difficult to jump arround.

P.S. After a year my typing speed on split keyboard is higher compared to laptop.

> Remap your "capslock" key to "escape."

I hear this recommendation a lot. You can do that, but much better is to get a keyboard with a proper thumb cluster like a kinesis[1], maltron[2], dactyl[3], ...

Much better to put such a common key on the thumb than stress out a pinky. I have a kinesis, and have esc mapped to the 'end' key there; similar positioning is possible on other keyboards. The keyboards I linked are also much more ergonomic than most flat keyboards—important, if you rely on your hands and wrists for your livelihood. Bit expensive, but well worth it.

1. https://kinesis-ergo.com/shop/advantage2/

2. https://www.maltron.com/

3. https://github.com/adereth/dactyl-keyboard

The most famous one is the dactyl[0]. I'm guessing you mean a portable kinesis advantage. There are some other kinesis keyboards which are portable.

[0] https://github.com/adereth/dactyl-keyboard

The design is based upon keyboard like that.

See the Dactyl and Dactyl Manuform.

Adding the joysticks shouldn't be as difficult as designing the whole thing from scratch.

https://github.com/adereth/dactyl-keyboard

https://github.com/abstracthat/dactyl-manuform

This is cool. Those who find it interesting might also enjoy Matt Adereth’s Dactyl [0] project. Similar idea, it’s a parameterised geometry 3d printable ergodox/kinesis style ortho board on steroids. I imagine the two would play quite nicely together.

[0] https://github.com/adereth/dactyl-keyboard

Would be curious to see what happpens if we let an optimizer go wild with tye keyboard structure as well. For a while, I've been wanting to try a Dactyl:

https://github.com/adereth/dactyl-keyboard

But I wonder if the space of possibilities contains some wacky hidden gems that we are just missing.

I've followed the Keyboard.io Model 01 crowdfunding campaign (they have the best writeups!) with a lot of interest. I'd probably buy two of their keyboards if they'd offer a German keyboard layout. They are $329 each. For that price, I expect a perfect product.

A keyboard that looks equally tempting (but involves a lot of soldering and other work) is the Dactyl keyboard (https://github.com/adereth/dactyl-keyboard ).

Dactyl https://github.com/adereth/dactyl-keyboard is split and curved. Been thinking about building one, though I'd probably use wood as casing material and I know it will be a lot of work, so it may or may not materialize...
I still don't think anything beats Matt Adereth's dactyl[0]. Tweak some hand size / reach parameters and let the clojure generate the curvature and the scads. Pure bliss in terms of human->machine interface.

[0] https://github.com/adereth/dactyl-keyboard

I recently bought a 3D printer and have enjoyed programing objects in cljoure with scad-clj.

https://github.com/farrellm/scad-clj

This is biggest project I know of that uses it:

https://github.com/adereth/dactyl-keyboard

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uk3A41U0iO4

Ergonomics was a large factor in building my own ErgoDox, my shoulders were killing me due to the keyboard being too short to be supported by the rests on my chair. Choosing to build your own keyboard is it's own little rabbit hole to go down, but it's worth it and you have a truly personalised device at the end. Some soldering and research is required but places such as r/mechanicalkeyboards and geekhack exist along with many many tutorials.

As far as curved keywell that comes down to your choice of key profile. I'm using XDA which a flat profile, while a SA profile has a decent curve to it. The choice of board does come into play but most kits are flat as to avoid 3d printing and whatnot[1]. For the feel of the key itself there are a ton [2] of options, from extremely smooth and light linear switches to heavy clacking tactile switches, most being compatible so mixing and matching is possible. PCBs come in all sorts such as tiny 70% sizes, split, stenographic and some freakazoid monsters [3]. Even FOSS firmwares such as QMK are common and hackable! There are are too many options to enumerate!

I just wanted a split keyboard that was small, light on my fingers and wouldn't wake the girlfriend up. I took some time and built a ErgoDox with Gateron clears, XDA blank keycaps and a programming focused layout. For less then 150CAD, it was worth it for it being entirely my own.

[1] https://github.com/adereth/dactyl-keyboard [2] https://deskthority.net/wiki/Category:List_of_all_keyboard_s... [3] https://keeb.io/products/bfo-9000-keyboard-customizable-full...

> a Kinesis Advantage keyboard

There are a lot of nice alternatives to this, too.

If you are happy spending >$300 on a keyboard, https://shop.keyboard.io/ is definitely worth looking into.

If you are feeling more frugal, there are all kinds of options. Anything "ortholinear" is an improvement. We don't need typewriter-staggered layouts. Anything that puts modifier keys near the thumbs instead of palms is also helpful.

Here are some great open-source designs:

https://olkb.com/planck

https://www.ergodox.io/

https://github.com/adereth/dactyl-keyboard

The wireless requirement will probably be the most annoying, as you'll have to deal with batteries, charging, figuring out how to get the two halves to communicate with each other and/or register as separate devices, etc. But it's certainly possible.

Believe it or not, there are folks out there creating their own curved keyboards. See the following for an example.

https://github.com/adereth/dactyl-keyboard

Thanks for the mention! For anyone interested, all the source and models for the Dactyl keyboard are available here: https://github.com/adereth/dactyl-keyboard

There's also a talk I gave a Clojure/conj about it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uk3A41U0iO4

You could always 3D print your own one...

https://github.com/adereth/dactyl-keyboard

Bonus points for having used Clojure to design it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uk3A41U0iO4

Here's my Wes Clark story...

About 6 years ago I went to his Brooklyn apartment for his birthday. I had never heard of him, but he's distant cousins with my wife's step father and we lived nearby. We get to his apartment and I start looking at the book collection... a lot of interesting math and computer science.

I started talking with him 1 on 1 and at some point he drops that he created the first personal computer. I'm ashamed to admit it, but in the back of my mind I was thinking "oh boy, this guy's not all there." But then he took me to his office and there's a poster of him with the LINC and I'm realizing that I've hit the motherlode of awesome computing history from a primary source.

He then showed me his current project: a working model Broadway stage for his granddaughter. It had to-scale working versions of everything, including the lights and actual mechanisms for drawing the curtains. Then he fired up his Mac with a 30" monitor and showed me that every piece had been laser cut from schematics that he had designed. In raw postscript. The entire thing was programmatically generated from a massive postscript program that was fully parameterized so he could change the dimensions of anything single component and the whole stage would be regenerated.

That programmatic modeling project was a big motivation for the work I've been doing to make parameterized 3d models for ergonomic keyboards (https://github.com/adereth/dactyl-keyboard).

I definitely experienced some cognitive dissonance watching an 82 year old flying around vim editing postscript. It was a trip and it was really inspiring to see someone his age still hacking.